Help with affidavit wording for Transgender ID

eloise

Hi, I've gotten my Gender Dysphoria/Incognruence letter, and as per suggestions by many, I'm directly applying for a Female-Marked Transgender ID and certificate. However, I'm a bit lost.

I want to avoid as much trial and error as possible so I want to get it right first time around without rejections. I'm using the template and Section 7 example found at https://transgender.dosje.gov.in/Applicant/Registration/Downloads

The template shows:

I am executing this affidavit to be submitted to the District Magistrate for issue of certificate of identity as transgender person under Section 6 of the Transgender Persons (Protection of Rights) Act, 2019 under Rule Transgender Persons (Protection of Rights) Rules, 2020.

But based on the Section 7 example, I'm going with:

I am executing this affidavit to be submitted to the District Magistrate for the issue of certificate of identity as a female person under Section 7 of the Transgender Persons (Protection of Rights) Act, 2019, read with Rules 3 and 6 of Transgender Persons (Protection of Rights) Rules, 2020.

Now, here is the dilemma: I'm unable to pinpoint the sections and rules, and this is making my head spin. The example in the downloads page could be of someone who had applied for a Transgender-marked ID prior or someone who had surgery. So, If I use the rulings mentioned in the example but is not applicable to me, that might cause rejection. I recently saw someone else who was rejected requesting transgender-marked ID first and it could be result of ruling mentioned on Section 7 example in the downloads page.

Could someone more ruling savvy help figure out if the above sections/rulings wording used for 4th bullet point is applicable to someone who...

Has not applied for a Transgender-marked ID, but directly applying for a female-marked ID.
Has GD letter
Has not had surgery.

mizu

I am executing this affidavit to be submitted to the District Magistrate for the issue of certificate of identity as a female person under Section 7 of the Transgender Persons (Protection of Rights) Act, 2019, read with Rules 3 and 6 of Transgender Persons (Protection of Rights) Rules, 2020.

This is what is in my affidavit and I never applied for a T-marked ID, I do not have a GD letter and have no surgical interventions. I got my TG ID with the F marker. That said, I had to go and convince the official in charge of my application that it was allowed and that I was using the format sent to me by Satvik, the then NISD contact.

eloise

mizu okay, hope i don't have to meet people. It's hard for me because of my dysphoria.

Ohh did you use child of or daughter/son of in the text part before the list?

mizu

mizu Sorry, just a correction. I meant:

do have a GD letter

not

do not have a GD letter

Note that for TG ID you will also need the certificate of medical interventions issued by your endocrinologist. The GD letter on its own may not suffice. In fact, I submitted the endocrinologist letter only, and not the GD one.

(Note to self: don't make serious posts when sleepy 😭)

mizu

eloise I used "child of (AMAB)", which was fine for TG ID and most other documentation. I had to redo everything with "son of" for my gazette notification.

TokumeiM

mizu Just curious, why did you have to get a gazette and TG ID both? I thought TG ID was supposed to be the go-to for changing all documents and you didn't need to go the gazette route anymore.

eloise

I see, but Satvik person told me GD/consultation counts as medical intervention.

You need to have your Medical Intervention Certificate which can be any procedure towards Gender Affirmation like GD/GIC letter, Endocrinologist Prescription For HRT, Surgical Intervention Etc.

eloise

Could anyone else confirm if they needed hrt letter for female marked TG ID card too or where you able to get it with GD letter itself?

mizu

eloise FYI I wasn't even able to get it with a HRT prescription. I specifically needed the letter in that format.

eloise

mizu then I'm seriously confused who the female-marked id is for if you had to struggle with hrt letter... someone like me with debilitating level of dysphoria won't be able to handle a in-person confrontation with officials. It's almost like the whole system is built on false hopes and designed to make us stressed out and depressed.

This changes everything. This means I can't change gender on documents if I'm unable to do a gazette post and there is a huge chance I won't be able to. 😔

All this time I thought if I got female-marked trans ID I can update aadhaar, pan, and voters id. Now legal transition is completely closed up.

If I can trouble you a bit more, what exactly you had to convince officials to get ID?

mizu I specifically needed the letter in that format.

I'm confused, could you clarify what format that is? certificate of medical interventions?

My letter has this part at the end:

In summary, Ms. <full name>, has gender dysphoria/incongruence and no other psychiatric deterrents currently to undergo Gender Affirming Medical and Surgical Interventions. She has information regarding the procedures including the benefits and risks which may be further reviewed by the provider during treatment. She will also benefit from any support in her legal transition process of changing her gender from Male to Female.

There is no mention of undergoing intervention in my letter, but my letter says I'm fit for medical and surgical intervention.

mizu

eloise

then I'm seriously confused who the female-marked id is for if you had to struggle with hrt letter...

I think it should be fairly straightforward, but if you plan on getting HRT, I recommend waiting till you are on HRT before applying for legal transition. If it's still a long way off, then I recommend trying with your GD letter first; and reattempting with an intervention letter (= HRT letter) later if rejected.

Also, to clarify, once I had the HRT letter, it was smooth sailing (for the most part). The issue was that I first tried with an HRT prescription, which was rejected.

If I can trouble you a bit more, what exactly you had to convince officials to get ID?

They insisted I needed to get a TG ID with a T marker first. I had to show them my communication with Satvik to convince them that my affidavit was indeed valid and that it was indeed possible to directly apply for an F marker.

I'm confused, could you clarify what format that is? certificate of medical interventions?

Yes, that's correct. In particular, they insisted on having details of my residence address, parent and age on the certificate, just as it was mentioned in the affidavit and newspaper ad. However, these requirements feel totally arbitrary and may vary from state to state (or even across districts? not sure). Still, I would recommend having as much personally identifying information as possible to reduce the chances of a rejection. Oh, and it should also be on the hospital letterhead and signed and stamped by the certifying physician.

eloise

mizu Also, to clarify, once I had the HRT letter, it was smooth sailing (for the most part). The issue was that I first tried with an HRT prescription, which was rejected.

Ahh now confusion clear. Okay. 😌

My situation on why I'm focusing on legal transition first... read if you are curious. I don't want to take up your time.

I would love to start hrt right away. In fact, I wanted hrt before I was even an adult when I was diagnosed with gid. So now that I have fresh GD letter as an adult, i am eager to get going. However, I wanted to loose weight and become financially secure before starting medical transition. I'm stil living month to month even though I'm financially independent and earning income.

I'm on the heavy side, it'll likely be unsafe to start hrt. It'll take 6-9 months before I'm safe weight to avoid becoming obese while on hrt as it'll become significantly harder to loose weight. One of the reason I kept my weight was because it was helping me pass than when I was skinny.

However, not having female marker in documents is causing lot of issues with renting, banking etc.

In my state people only rent to family or single woman. It's a very prevalent preference. So, not having female marker is affecting my housing situation. I don't have any relatives nearby to stay. I got my current flat with the help of my sister and brother-in-law but they shifted out of state due to work. So once this is up, I have no where to go. This was one issue that prompted me to focus on legal transition first.

Another reason was probably the biggest wakeup call for me. I'm sure it'll serve as an example for others in my situation.

I recently opened Axis Bank's fully digital Infinity account as a precursor to apply for credit card to increase my credit options. What would've been a simple instant video kyc process turned into a month long back and forth with the bank. My bank escalated it to offline verification because of my gender marker. I fairly pass with long hair, laser hair removal, curvy body, and feminine voice. So video kyc was not only rejected, they suspected identity theft. 🥺

It took a month to resolve and so much stress with multiple offline recidence verification. Inquiry with association and neighbour if I am indeed person of this name etc. In ID documents i have medium short hair (now waist length long hair) and i had put on weight since aadhaar and pan photo. However, bank manager did confirm they did see resemblance, but because of gender marker they had to initiate extended verification. I even told them i didn't want account anymore because it was so much stress, but for legal reasons they had to go through due process. This was a serious wake up call for me.

These recent incidents made me look into legal updation and I found myself here in Transgender India talk. So for basic life stuff as housing and banking I'm struggling because of gender marker. So I'm dealing with more than just dysphoria. Life is complicated because I'm passing as female but documents show I'm male. This is why my psychiatrist specifically states in my gd letter I'll benefit from help in legal transition as he realised how much stress this incident caused me. 🥺

mizu

eloise Are you me? lmao. The only thing is that I was not close to passing fem in terms of appearance, but I can relate to mostly everything you've said here. I spent about 2 years getting in shape before starting HRT (well... it's more like I had difficulty first accepting myself and then coming out of the closet, but I wanted to deal with dysmorphia and depression-related weight gain due to binge eating, etc.).

Incidentally, the house I am currently living in was only up for rest to women and not to bachelors. Thanks to a friend (I was not out to this person at the time)'s introduction (that I am "not like other bachelors" kek), the owner leased out the place to me. I've also suffered the bank services on the phone thing due to voice and realize how frustrating it can be. It sounds so much more worse in your case due to appearance, etc. also playing a big role.

I hope that the DM/their team understands and issues you the TG ID based on the psych's recommendation. I recommend going and speaking to them in person once if you can ahead of submitting the documents and risking a rejection. In my experience, most officials are actually rather sympathetic and do their best to help you.

eloise

I noticed that a lot of trans people have similar struggles, and there are a lot of overlaps. I got into comfort eating too, but in my case, because it was helping me pass more, I defaulted to the chubby girl identity. I'm actually double my weight from my fittest. I was aware I needed to get fit again for best health outcomes, but I started dreading what if I didn't pass after losing weight. So, it becomes a vicious cycle. I needed to lose weight to medically transition, but dysphoria was preventing me from losing weight. So, I never initiated steps. This legal stuff is probably a blessing in disguise as it forced me to break out of this limbo.

I hope that the DM/their team understands and issues you the TG ID based on the psych's recommendation. I recommend going and speaking to them in person once if you can ahead of submitting the documents and risking a rejection.

I wonder what happens if it's rejected and we aren't able to convince them in the 30-day appeal period. I couldn't find any info on it. I don't think it's constitutional for them to declare we can never apply again. I hope it's not like that.

Oh, I had a sudden thought. Did you have a notary or gazetted officer attest your HRT letter? Or you uploaded as is with just doctor's signature and seal?

mizu

eloise Yes yes, same here. 🫣 I actually started getting "ma'am"ed a lot when overweight but I needed to lose the weight as it was seriously getting unhealthy. I hated how I looked and avoided mirrors like the plague though... and sort of took weight loss up as a challenge to see if I could be in it for the long haul. This was a little over 2 years ago now, maybe coming up on 3.

I wonder what happens if it's rejected and we aren't able to convince them in the 30-day appeal period.

I believe you can just make a fresh application. It shouldn't matter that the first was rejected. You shouldn't have to worry too much about that.

TokumeiM My B.Tech. university asked for the gazette notification. I also wanted to "get it done just in case". I haven't needed it for anything other than my bachelors degree yet. fwiw, the passport office also asked for it (despite already giving them my TG ID), but it seemed to be a soft requirement (either gazette + 1 newspaper ad, or 2 newspaper ads).

eloise

Oh, I had a sudden thought. Did you have a notary or gazetted officer attest your HRT letter? Or you uploaded as is with just doctor's signature and seal?

Could you clarify this. You been an amazing help in putting things into perspective for me. I'm going to apply for TG Card today evening.

mizu

eloise Oops, sorry! I forgot to respond to that.
As far as my TG ID application was concerned, my HRT letter was used as-is, without any notary attestation.

eloise

mizu that's a lot of relief. 😌

Sorry to keep doing this... 🤭 Also, since you had gazette done, did you have to attest supporting documents by a gazetted officer? When i enquired gazette people told me all documents should be attested by gazetted officer. If you had to, who did you approach? Like Chief medical officer or school principal?

mizu

eloise I just got them attested by a public notary. It's called true copy attestation, where they photocopy it and affix their notary stamp and sign it, along with a "true copy attested" stamp. The gazette office will collect the true copy attested medical documents from you (don't give the originals!).

The gazette office will also take the original affidavit, so it's best to make a separate affidavit for that so that you can hand on to the affidavit made for your TG ID. But keep a true copy attested version of said affidavit for future use/reference.

eloise

I noticed something odd on the summary page after the application was submitted. It links to all the files except the medical certificate / GD Letter. Do any of you remember it was the same to you?

mizu

eloise It should be linked from here: